Speakers-Lucinda Reid Brown, Matthew Oglesby

Audio Quality-Good

Location-Clemson, SC

Cassette 1

Side 1

00:59--Mrs. Reid Brown was born "in the country" between Central and Pendleton on March 11, 1890. Her parents were Butler and Harley Reid.

3:26--Her grandparents were Mimi and Isaac Butler. Isaac actually lived with Mrs. Reid Brown's family when he was an elderly man. He was a former slave of John C. Calhoun.

4:41--Mrs. Reid Brown recalls some of the "older folks" that she knew as a youth. Uncle Vick, Alan Butler, and Aunts Catherine, May Earle, Rena, and Margaret Vance are mentioned. She names the locations of the aforementioned individual's homes. They are all buried at Abel.

10:14--Her older relatives lived through hard times, but took things as they were.

11:00--Slavery--her grandfather shared many stories of his experiences. John C. Calhoun's slave quarters were located near the Clemson College dairy building. When Calhoun would make visits to Fort Hill, his slaves would gather around him and attempt to touch him; expressing some sort of reverence. The slaves were not allowed to go to church, so they would go deep into wooded areas to in order to worship. She states that the old spiritual I Couldn't Hear Nobody Pray was influenced by these type experiences.

13:14--All the older members of her family are buried at Abel. There are no written markers on the graves; only stones were used to mark graves in the old days.

14:33--Marriage during slave days--some slaves had religious masters who would perform formal marriage ceremonies. This was, however, not a widespread practice so slave couples just lived together. Mrs. Reid Brown was married to Jack Brown. His parents were Vennie and Wallace Brown of Pendleton.

16:17--Her parents were sharecroppers. Her brother worked on the Southern Railroad and later went to Alabama to do mining and farm work.

19:15--A few additional jobs open to black men involved cutting wood, farming, and digging ditches. She explains the difficulties blacks faced in regards to earning any significant amounts of money.

20:42--As far as shopping, blacks usually would usually trade for items instead of using cash, simply because they never were allowed to make enough money. Clothes were handmade and it was "...barely enough to get by." An individual might have owned exactly one "Sunday dress" type outfit. The wives of slave master's would often teach the women how to sew.

23:53--Any furniture that was owned was usually handmade. Slave master's often taught the men carpentry skills. In addition, men like her grandfather were skilled in weaving fine baskets out of white oak.

27:08--She can recall the older members of her family's discussions regarding hard times. Even after emancipation, things didn't really improve for some period of time on account that the southern economy was completely ruined.

29:36--Medical issues and sickness--there weren't many doctors available after the Civil War, if for no other reason than many of them had been killed during the conflict. Blacks were forced to rely on home remedies. She can remember the flu epidemic of 1917-18. Many families had to deal with sickness and death.

31:42--Audio ends.

Cassette 1

Side 2

00:30--Church--she can remember another Reverend Oglesby who died while preaching at the pulpit. His replacement was a Reverend Williams. Reverend Williams baptized Mrs. Reid Brown. They briefly discuss the only two black churches in the immediate area: "Little Abel" and Abel Baptist Church.

5:10--Mrs. Reid Brown recalls attending singing conventions and some of her favorite songs.

10:00--Mr. Oglesby is interested in knowing if there were ever any occasions on which whites and blacks worshipped together. She understands that "in the old days," the congregation at the Old Stone Church allowed blacks to attend.

11:15--Education--she went to school at Abel Baptist as a youth. When school districts were drawn up, she was no longer allowed to attend Abel. The problem arose, however, that there was no school in her district. A gentleman named Mr. Shaw had an old two-room house that he rented out for use as the new school. The school term consisted of two winter months and three summer months. Mr. Dupree was the first teacher that she can remember. He was one of the only blacks in the area at the time that had an education and also owned land. Mr. Dupree was educated at Benedict. Both Mrs. Reid Brown's parents could read and write, though she is unaware of when or where they were educated. Her sister Pauline was the first individual in the family that attended college (Seneca Junior). Her parents made sure that books were available in the house for the children to read. "Black History" was not taught in schools.

20:57--Voting--to her knowledge blacks didn't vote in the old days; Mrs. Reid Brown's generation were among the first to be allowed.

22:24--There were no pre-Civil War "free blacks" in her family. She can recall an individual called "Free Joe" who fell into this category, however. There was some tension between free and emancipated blacks after the war. "Free Blacks" seemed to look down on the newly emancipated.

24:12--In her experience, whites always looked down on the black community and attempted to hold them back. Blacks always had to be very respectful to whites in social situations.

25:44--Lynching--blacks were intensely fearful of this scenario--blacks were especially afraid to speak to white women.

26:55--Law enforcement and blacks--blacks were always taught to stay out of trouble by "knowing their place." She feels this is ridiculous, because "her place" is everybody else's place.

28:15--Relationships between black women and white men were well known in the old days. Some couples had large families of racially mixed children. Some white men would explain the presence of black mistresses in the house as their "house keepers."

29:52--Mulattos were treated differently by the black community; they thought of themselves socially as "white." They received no additional respect from the whites, however.

31:42--Audio ends.

Cassette 2

**Note**

Mr. Oglesby states that this interview took place on February 13. This is not a follow-up interview, however. The same questions are asked of Mrs. Reid Brown, and she gives similar answers.

Side 1--31:50 of audio.

Side 2--15:48 of audio.